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The country of Vietnam has been recently requesting help from the U.S. in terms of purchasing American weapons in order to counter the threat from Chinese territorial claims in the South China Sea and because of Vietnam's historical conflicts with China. Other countries in Asia are expressing similar concerns over China's aggressive advancement in the region.

Because the ruling power in Vietnam has embraced the communist ideology, we should now ask them to adopt a better argument against China's claims and influence since communism advances the idea that 'workers of the world unite' where communist states ideally rise and merge or ally with each other. Do they not have a tendency to subvert or outright take control of the wealth or resources of their people or other states while removing any threat of the influence of any free or sovereign populaces? This is testament to the failures of Marxism -- having to feed off of surrounding states as the central communist state routs itself while denying its abuses against the various peoples. Such a spreading wave is referred to as the 'domino theory'. Thankfully this theory doesn't always pan out and in this case despite both Vietnam and China being communist, they are still sovereignly and territorially competitive and have kept check up to this point. And whereas China has accepted some market reforms and has enjoyed more prosperity through that and trading with the U.S., China is still under rule of the communist party and has merely routed itself in a more profligate fashion through its remaining central planning policies. Within all of this, Vietnam facing threat of becoming a subdued or satellite state should not be too surprising. We should accordingly ask Vietnam to take a more consistent stand against collective colonialism or communal imperialism.

Knowing what we know now, it is not unreasonable to conclude that the meteoric rise of China would have at least been less intense and better kept in check if we (and the West) had more effectively tempered our trade policy towards them and kept better guard of our proprietary trade and military technology. The Chinese regime laughs at America for giving things away or being easy prey. Vietnam would be in a more secure sovereign position or at least whatever threat they face would not be attributable in large part to premature U.S. commerce and its insecure data infrastructure both with respect to the Chinese. We ask whether there should not have been at least more conditions or triggers set on trade policy towards China commensurate with their records of human rights abuse and to better keep check on the rise of the Chi-coms' strength which now not only threatens Asia but the U.S. eventually as well. With all of this, the U.S. now has obligation to counter China in general and obligation to the south Vietnamese who were abandoned after the war.

Let us take course on a strategic policy towards Vietnam that considers the aforementioned factors and goals and honors those who fought for freedom there. This means we should not provide the current communist one-party Vietnam with any military training or hardware unless they meet certain conditions. We propose that some choice from the following benchmarks be met before providing Vietnam with defense assistance:

(A) Vietnam should as a whole enact truly free elections as opposed to the current one-party state. Further human rights and free market reforms should be implemented. Ho Chi Minh City would be allowed to have referendum on returning to the name Saigon.

~ OR ~

(B) The country of South Vietnam would be re-instated with its capitol in what would again be referred to as Saigon. Current citizens of today's Vietnam would have option to relocate to either communist North Vietnam or capitalist South Vietnam and successive open interchange afforded to secure individuals.

~ OR ~

(C) Since demographics may have sufficiently changed since the war, each current or any new provinces of Vietnam would elect whether to generally lean towards a communist or capitalist background with each province then adhering to one respective capitol located in either Hanoi or what will again be called Saigon -- both of whose authority would be enumerated under a federalist model and likely more so for the Saigon-adhering provinces. (Say two sets of provinces each making a country either of which are contiguous or non-contiguous.)

~ OR ~

(D) As a compliment or alternative to (C), a grant of choice for economy or capitol would lie with each individual wherever they reside now and they would accordingly opt out or subscribe to one set of either of the federal social service and market structures.

In both (C) and (D), any gap or vagueness about the federally enumerated powers would be legislated upon by the relevant province. Notice that (D) is more aptly described as an 'intermixed states solution' as opposed to calling it a 'two-state solution'. In all the above benchmarks the U.S. should be allowed if it ever wishes to:

~Establish military bases within the current borders of the whole country of Vietnam

~Install a missile system within the same boundaries

~Set up a launch facility for public and/or private rockets and satellites likely located near to or in the southernmost tip of Vietnam

~Acquire as a tribute for transacting towards Vietnam's defense: a threshold first option share for American companies within the Vietnam economy such as the oil industry or fishing, haven legislation for medical tourism

In pursuance of this proposal, we stress that the U.S. will not diminish or withhold its efforts to decontaminate Vietnam of agent orange or unexploded ordinance beyond any usual factors like weather, manpower, funds and general logistics. As well we expect continuation of the search for those missing in action from the war. Regardless, the U.S. should increase quota of visas, work permits and permanent immigration for the Vietnamese especially those left behind who were of assistance to the U.S. during the war.

~anchor for links link~


“USA Today 5/19/99 “…In 1996, the Administration transferred the licensing authority for exporting satellite technology from the State Department, which had opposed giving new technology to China, to the Commerce Department, which immediately approved the transfer. Given the green light by the Commerce Department, Loral Corporation provided China with missile technology to improve its satellite launch and guidance systems. This same technology can be used to improve the performance of missiles aimed at the United States… ” ~ posted December 14, 2012 JRMaroney

'In 1994, Preident Clinton sent Jimmy Carter to cut a deal with the North Koreans in their effort to develop nuclear weapons. We agreed to give Pyongyang free oil, two free nuclear reactors, diplomatic ties, and increased trade - and Pyongyang agreed to dismantle its bomb-making facilities in 10 years. In December 2002, North Korea restarted its nuclear reactor at Yongbyon and forced two UN nuclear monitors to leave the country.'

'It was through Bill Clinton's efforts that the Chinese launched American communications satellites and it was his efforts that made it possible for the Chinese to improve their guidance systems of its rockets and long-range nuclear missles.'

'Clinton said, "We should not reward China with improved trade status when it has ... failed to make sufficient progress on human rights since the Tiananmen Square massacre." Later, as President, he delinks "most favored nation" trade status from human rights. '

'Between the 1st century BC and 15th century AD, Vietnam was subject to four separate periods of imperial Chinese domination, although it successfully asserted a degree of independence ....... in 938 AD.'

'Vietnam may prove harder to push around than some of China’s other maritime neighbors in contested waters. Vietnamese and Chinese ships recently rammed each other and fired water cannons to contest China’s bringing in a giant oil rig off the barren sandspits called the Paracel Archipelago that both claim in the South China Sea. It was not the first such confrontation.'

'...even though the war between the two Vietnams was still raging, Hanoi made the decision to steal a march on China, its vital ally, just to make sure that, once the war was over, a Vietnamese garrison remained on the remote islands Vietnam claimed.'

'In 1979 China actually attacked Vietnam along its northern border, not over islands in the South China Sea, but in order to punish Vietnam for its invasion of Cambodia in order to oust the loathsome Khmer Rouge regime, a China ally'

'Many of Vietnam’s traditional heroes, such as the Trung sisters in the first century AD and Le Loi in the 15th century, gained their place in history for anti-Chinese resistance.'

'When Ho Chi Minh was criticized by Vietnamese nationalists for agreeing to have the French return to their old colony to replace Chinese troops, Ho told them that European colonialism was dying. He said he would rather smell French excrement for a few years more than Chinese excrement for another millennium.' ~ By H.D.S. Greenway | May 25, 2014

'In December 1978 Vietnam invaded Cambodia, quickly ousted the pro-Beijing Pol Pot regime, and overran the country.'

'China's twenty-nine-day incursion into Vietnam in February 1979 was a response to what China considered to be a collection of provocative actions and policies on Hanoi's part. These included Vietnamese intimacy with the Soviet Union, mistreatment of ethnic Chinese living in Vietnam, hegemonistic "imperial dreams" in Southeast Asia, and spurning of Beijing's attempt to repatriate Chinese residents of Vietnam to China.'

'Since the early 1980s, China pursued what some observers described as a semi-secret campaign against Vietnam that was more than a series of border incidents and less than a limited small-scale war. The Vietnamese called it a "multifaceted war of sabotage."

'In hindsight, the domino theory failed to take into account the character of the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong struggle in the Vietnam War. By assuming Ho Chi Minh was a pawn of the communist giants Russia and China, American policymakers failed to see that the goal of Ho and his supporters was limited to Vietnamese independence, rather than the spread of global communism.'

'The Philippine government has been doing its best to call attention to China’s land reclamation projects in the South China Sea, part of Manila’s attempt to win over international opinion. The Philippines calls such actions provocative, a unilateral attempt to change the status quo. '

'However, it’s equally possible that China plans to install civilian populations on the new islands to bolster its sovereignty claims. China, the Philippines, and Vietnam all maintain small civilian outposts in the South China Sea as a way of legitimizing their claims (and deterring military actions by other claimants).' ~ By Shannon Tiezzi | September 10, 2014

'The South China Sea Islands consist of over 250 islands, atolls, cays, shoals, reefs, and sandbars in the South China Sea, none of which have indigenous people, few of which have any natural water supply, many of which are naturally under water at high tide, and many of which are permanently submerged. '

'The South China Sea region is the world's second busiest international sea lane. More than half of the world's supertanker traffic passes through the region's waters. In addition, the South China Sea region contains oil and gas resources strategically located near large energy-consuming countries.'

Essay notes various conflicts of other nations with China over the South China Sea Islands.

'Anger has simmered over the South China Sea among China and neighboring countries, such as Vietnam and the Philippines, which have argued about existing territorial claims and the natural resources that lie beneath them. '

'In 2013, China declared an air defense zone in the East China Sea that covered islands disputed by China and Japan, eliciting strong criticisms from Japan and its close ally the U.S. ' ~ By Katie Hunt, CNN | Updated 9:29 AM ET, Mon June 1, 2015

'First, the basic elements of a market economy as stated above was suc- cessfully introduced or adopted by the Chinese government in the initial stage of reform. Even when there were a number of institutional short- comings in the form of state control, lack of competition, and bureaucratic interference in the market economy, the Chinese people were able to get rich by hard working and entrepreneurship.'

'When the planning system was being changed from “compulsory” plan- ning to “guidance” planning as stipulated by the October 1984 Decision of the Central Committee of the Communist Party a macro-economic control mechanism was to be introduced which required a more modern banking system.'

'Agriculture was privatized overnight, but state enterprises and state banks could not be changed rapidly. The success of reform in agriculture seems to favor ”shock therapy” as a strategy for reform, but the failure in reforming state enterprises and banks seems to raise doubt on the pos- sibility of a quick transformation.' ~ Gregory C. Chow | Department of Economics, Princeton University, USA

'Prior to the initiation of economic reforms and trade liberalization 35 years ago, China maintained policies that kept the economy very poor, stagnant, centrally controlled, vastly inefficient, and relatively isolated from the global economy. Since opening up to foreign trade and investment and implementing free market reforms in 1979, China has been among the world’s fastest-growing economies, with real annual gr oss domestic product (GDP) growth averaging nearly 10% through 2013.'

'Despite China’s three-decade history of widespread economic reforms, Chinese officials contend that China is a “socialist-market economy.” This appears to indicate that the government accepts and allows the use of free market forces in a number of areas to help grow the economy, but the government still plays a major role in the country’s economic development. '

'China’s banking system is largely controlled by the central government, which attempts to ensure that capital (credit) flows to industries deemed by the government to be essential to China’s economic development. SOEs are believed to receive preferential credit treatment by government banks, while private firms must often pay higher interest rates or obtain credit elsewhere. ' ~ Wayne M. Morrison - Specialist in Asian Trade and Finance | October 9, 2014

'While China has significantly liberalized it’s economic and trade regimes over the past three decades, it continues to maintain (or has recently imposed) a number of state-directed policies that appear to distort trade and investment flows.' ~ Wayne M. Morrison - Specialist in Asian Trade and Finance | March 17, 2015

'Most Western commentators focus on the spectacular success of China’s export sector and the emergence of China as the world’s factory. But the greater contributor to Chinese growth is actually domestically funded fixed investment, which constituted over 50% of GDP in 2008 and over 40% of growth in that year. China is way off the charts in this regard. Taiwan, for example, which had an unparalleled growth rate of 8% each year over 50 years, never had capital investment spending of more than 30% of GDP.'

'Even though state-controlled enterprises produce between one-fourth and one-third of all output in the country, they receive over 75% of the country’s capital, and that figure is rising. The Chinese state sector owns almost two-thirds of all fixed assets in the country. This is the reverse of what occurred in South Korea (as well as Japan and Taiwan) where the private sector received over three-quarters of all capital during the 1960s and 1970s.' ~ John Lee | 6/23/2009 @ 4:57PM

....We mull over this a bit concerning the 'domestically funded fixed investment' discussed in the first paragraph. While the reverberations of government capital re-investment is a significant factor, their general rise has occurred after more open trade with the West which has allowed for some - though partial - market reforms and more modernization. They have an economy about the size of the U.S. but they also have about four times as many people which results in a standard of living at lower average. It is in the modernized cities where more foreign business and manufacturing are that the rural classes go to have a higher standard of living. Overall the domestic-managed economy is obviously still overregulated and corrupt with vast inefficiencies like their ghost cities & shadow banking risk. It would seem the immediate profits from exporting are likely more concentrated about the modern, inhabited cities yielding a stronger nation within a nation. About those cities is where they have obtained western technology both by observation or outright stealing. In all of this, we think the value of foreign trade, manufacturing and investment do significantly make the Chinese dragon more powerful over time and thus our responsibility to keep it in check.

'Engaged in a war that many viewed as having no way to win, U.S. leaders lost the American public's support for the war. Since the end of the war, the Vietnam War has become a benchmark for what not to do in all future U.S. foreign conflicts.'

'President Johnson's goal for U.S. involvement in Vietnam was not for the U.S. to win the war, but for U.S. troops to bolster South Vietnam's defenses until South Vietnam could take over. By entering the Vietnam War without a goal to win, Johnson set the stage for future public and troop disappointment when the U.S. found themselves in a stalemate with the North Vietnamese and the Viet Cong.' ~ By Jennifer Rosenberg - 20th Century History Expert

Such harkens Obama -- does he ever intend to win today's conflicts? Is he even a patriot?

Here is a map of the former North and South Vietnam.

'United States in Vietnam 1945-1975..... Comprehensive Timelines with Quotes and Analysis'

'This site does not try to document the entire history of the Vietnam War, but is intended as a picture essay illustrating some of the incredible conditions under which soldiers from both sides lived, fought, played and ultimately died. The legendary combat photographer, Tim Page, took almost all of the images shown on this site and they are nothing short of stunning.'

'The Vietnam War was the longest in U.S. history, until the war in Afghanistan that began in 2002 and continues at this writing (2013). It was extremely divisive in the U.S., Europe, Australia and elsewhere. ..... It remains a very controversial topic that continues to affect political and military decisions today. '

'Population in the south was mostly clustered in a few areas along the coast; the north always enjoyed a larger population. The two sections were not unlike North and South in the United States prior to the Civil War; their people did not fully trust each other.'

'Although many historians have since claimed that the Tet Offensive was a military defeat, but a psychological victory for the Communists, it had produced the desired results. In late March 1968, a disgraced Lyndon Johnson announced that he would not seek the Democratic Party's re-nomination for president and hinted that he would go to the bargaining table with the Communists to end the war. ' ~ By Professor Robert K. Brigham, Vassar College

'Vietnamese and U.S. officials on Thursday are launching a project to clean up a contaminated former American airbase at Da Nang.'

'During the Vietnam War U.S. air forces sprayed millions of liters of Agent Orange to clear vegetation in search of Vietnam’s communist forces.' ~ Daniel Schearf | August 03, 2012 6:36 AM

'Because this herbicide came in drums with orange stripes, it was called Agent Orange. Today, Agent Orange refers generally to all the phenoxy herbicides sprayed at the time.'

'During the 1970s, some veterans returning from Vietnam began to report skin rashes, cancer, psychological symptoms, birth defects in their children, and other health problems. Some veterans were concerned that Agent Orange exposure might have contributed to these problems.'

'Vietnam today started the first phase of a joint plan with former enemy the United States to clean up environmental damage leftover from the chemical defoliant Agent Orange, a lasting legacy from the Vietnam War. ' ~ By Newser Editors and Wire Services | Posted Jun 17, 2011 12:54 PM CDT

'The U.S. Constitution establishes a government based on "federalism," or the sharing of power between the national, and state (and local) governments. Our power-sharing form of government is the opposite of "centralized" governments, such as those in England and France, under which national government maintains total power.' ~ Robert Longley

'Federalism is the sharing of power between national and state governments.'

'Slaveholding states were allowed to count three-fifths of their enslaved population for representation and taxation purposes. To count slaves fully would only have increased the political power of slave states.' ~ by Linda R. Monk, Constitutional scholar

In the American constitution, federal government handles the more national and interstate issues under enumerated powers and the states handle the criminal, family, property, environmental, etc. laws within their borders with counties and municipalities taking up the slack. We advocate something similar with respect to provinces for the new multi-party or the proposed two Vietnams.

'Western nations and international human rights groups have repeatedly raised concerns about human rights violations by Vietnam's authoritarian government. Vietnam is a one-party state that squelches dissent, and Amnesty International has said that scores are still being detained for exercising their right to freedom of expression. Hanoi says only those who violate laws are put behind bars.'

'Last October the U.S. partially lifted its ban on weapons sales to Vietnam, allowing only the sale of lethal maritime security and surveillance capabilities. To date no weapons have flowed to Vietnam.' ~ By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press - June 1, 2015 | 4:34 a.m. EDT

'By the 1990s, human rights violations in Vietnam continued unchecked, and it became apparent that a unified front of human rights activists was indispensable. In November 1997, an international consortium of Vietnamese human rights leaders and activists assembled in Santa Ana, California for the establishment of a coalition'

"Most recent news" - A collection of stories of interest here, but the site may have halted operation.

'Human Rights in China (HRIC) is a Chinese non-governmental organization (NGO) founded in March 1989 by overseas Chinese students and scientists.'

'Through our media and advocacy work, we raise international awareness of and support for the diverse and expanding civil society activism in China.'

'But just as China has happily become an exclusive source for many of our critical defense materials, it has ramped up a sophisticated cyber-espionage campaign to steal American economic data and military secrets. It was only last week that we learned the details of a confidential list of advanced weapons system designs compromised by China-based hackers.'

'In essence, we are bankrolling China’s ability to spy on us and expand its military capabilities, thanks to the huge trade deficits we continue to run.' ~ By Scott N. Paul - June 2, 2013

'Chinese hackers broke into the computer networks housing the personal information of all federal US government employees in March in an apparent attempt to target people who had applied for top-secret security clearances.'

'Speaking at a news conference in Beijing Thursday, Kerry said of the breach, “At this point in time, it does not appear to have compromised any sensitive material.” ~ Dominic Rushe in New York | Thursday 10 July 2014 12.32 EDT

....It's the usual lack of concern from Kerry and this administration that has helped put our nation in peril by not prioritizing and protecting more against the hacking of federal personnel and military secrets and strategies not to mention the general Chinese theft by hacking of trade secrets and technology.

'Chinese hack of personnel files compromised a database holding sensitive ­security-clearance information.'

'Agencies have been slow to address their vulnerabilities, even as federal cybersecurity funding has grown in recent years to combat fast-moving threats. But attacks on government networks are also on the rise. A Government Accountability Office found this year that the number of security incidents reported by federal agencies jumped to 67,168 in 2014 from 5,503 in 2006, an increase of 1,121 percent.' ~ By Lisa Rein June 15

This should illustrate very clearly that giving more money to the government does not fix a problem. Just as with education, government takes in more money but is not equitable and efficient with it, instead its bloated squandering does not address the problem and that is why American education amongst other things managed by government is going downhill.

'How did they do it, though? The government has a large, costly, sophisticated, and mostly secret system for protecting its data. But that system is, even according to the government, obsolete.'

'In 2014, then-Attorney General Eric Holder called for rules forcing companies to make disclosures to customers quickly when their information was hacked; it seems the government wouldn’t have met those guidelines.' ~ David A. Graham Jun 6, 2015

Hypocrite government does not need more revenue - it needs to be culled and the idiots in charge thrown-the-hell out!!!!!!

'In China, the trade of counterfeit goods (jia huo) is as profitable as it is pervasive. In 2002, the state-run Development Research Center valued the nation’s counterfeiting industry at US $16 billion, which some consider a conservative estimate. [1][1] Experts believe that over 90% of the consumer goods sold in the city of Yiwu, regarded as the counterfeit capital of China, are counterfeit.'

'In China, as the International Trade Administration of the U.S. Department of Commerce stated, “if a product sells, it is likely to be illegally duplicated.”

' a CBS News correspondent was offered counterfeit Callaway golf irons, putters, golf bags, gloves and even a Callaway umbrella for a grand total of US $275.00; in the United States, the authentic equipment retails at $3,000' ~ Daniel C. Fleming

Therefore it is not beyond reason that a major factor of China's growth is its theft of Western intellectual property acquired through its channels of open trade and the opportune predation on Western manufacturing located in China:

Intellectual property rights (and similar) agreements have been made with China, but still there is serious problem:

'Despite all these efforts, piracy remains a big issue in China. And, it has remained a bone of contention in maintaining trade relations with China. The piracy rate at 90% remains the highest in China. Greater sincerity and high degree of commitment are required to implement the China intellectual property rights. Only then things would improve for the better.'

'If all of these ghost cities and ghost suburbs were part of a master plan hatched in Beijing by the central government, I'd imagine we'd see more affordable housing, as that's what is needed in China. Instead, most of the housing that's been built in these empty districts are luxury condos and villas. I have a hard time believing people will eventually move into these empty complexes in the next five years, especially in the scenario of a cooling economy'

'Guizhou, has an 80% debt-to-GDP ratio, which is incredibly dangerous. Arthur's usually pretty bullish on China's prospects, but he threw his optimism out the window when talking about the empty suburbs of that city, where hundreds of thousands of apartments sit, empty, while the largely mountainous province continues to plod along as one of China's poorest.' ~ Mamta Badkar | Jun. 9, 2014, 1:22 PM

Here's a tour of China's centrally planned cities constructed during booms but have gone bust and thus became never inhabited ghost towns:

'I visited a replica of New York City under construction outside the Northern Chinese city of Tianjin. '

'A year later, construction on this city, named Yujiapu, has all but grinded to a halt. Investors have pulled out. And a cluster of skyscrapers sit, half-finished – Manhattan on hold.' ~ by Rob Schmitz | Monday, June 2, 2014 - 16:09

China is testament to the insanities of central planning and Keynesian stimulus such as the U.S. has intensified upon in the Obama years..............

'With a population reckoned at 1,351,000,000 and rising fast, the resultant boom in property development has led to scores of new-made millionaires and a rapidly growing elite class; at the same time however, analysts fear that this property bubble is set to burst. The country itself owes coming on for a trillion dollars in debt.'

'China's notorious ghost cities are a disaster waiting to happen, according to a new report from CBS News' "60 Minutes." Take it from the CEO of Vanke, the country's largest residential real estate developer, who tells the news program that developers are deep in debt, projects are being abandoned, and things could get ugly fast. The nightmare scenario could be like America's housing crash but worse.' ~ Business Insider | Mar 5th 2013 11:45AM | Updated Mar 6th 2013 10:32AM

'Documentary by SBS Dateline (Australian TV) about the Chinese real estate market.' ~ Uploaded on Mar 24, 2011

'Why are so many uninhabited cities still being built in China? Dateline returns to update one of its most watched stories, China's Ghost Cities, to find out.' ~ Published on Sep 10, 2013 (follow-up to above link)

'China's policymakers are concerned that the country's economy has become overly reliant on borrowing to fuel growth and that debt-fueled investment has created massive overcapacity in many industries.'

'China's ratio of total debt-to-GDP, including government, corporate and household debt, was set to reach 218 percent of GDP by the end of 2013, up 87 percentage points since 2008, rating agency Fitch estimates.' ~ By Heng Xie and Gabriel Wildau | Mon Jan 6, 2014 6:07am EST

'China has embarked on an unprecedented experiment in credit expansion that far exceeds anything seen before the financial crisis that rocked Western markets six years ago.'

'...shadow banking industry in China that today is responsible for as many loans in terms of volume as the country’s entire mainstream financial system. ' ~ Harry Wilson | 9:30PM GMT 01 Feb 2014

'If economic growth in China continues to slow, rising and sudden defaults on loans made in the country's shadow banking system could threaten to bring down China's traditional banking sector and throw the world's third-largest economy in jeopardy, according to Bank of America Merrill Lynch China Strategist David Cui.'

'Given the shadow banking system's enormous size, importance to the real economy in terms of the credit it provides, and the numerous feedback loops back into the traditional banking sector, China could face major issues if it starts to look like no one is able to pay anyone else back.' ~ Matthew Boesler | Jul. 17, 2012, 7:39 PM'



Commonwealth Party
Vietnam vs China Policy
last revised June 2015